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I have a problem and I
need some help. After
I've finished one of my
works I put on a layer of
sealer and when this was
dry I paint it. After a
few weeks the paint
started to come off in
flakes... Can someone
explain me what when
wrong, please? Sorry my
english is not so good...
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What sort of sealer did you use? And what sort of paint? Clearly there is an incompatability between them.
DavidO
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Hi, Dopapier, I have used a water-based paint for painting interior walls in houses ,we call them latex painting. Over it I used acrylic painting, and then water based lacquer.
I notice that the lacquer made tiny bubbles.
Thank you so much for your interest, I would apreciate if you can help me on this matter avoiding future troubles in my works.
Mirta
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Latex and acrylic paints should work well together, as they're practically the same thing.
The water-based lacquer: did you thin it (dilute it) with anything? Was it old? Did you use a thick coat or several thin coats? Was the papier mache project COMPLETELY dry all the way through before you applied the first coating of paint?
My only thoughts right now is that the lacquer was contaminated, or the papier mache was still damp when you painted it.
Sue
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Hello Sue, thank you Sue for your replay.
My work was completely dry, I am sure of it. Nevertheless I do not remember well, maybe I put a strong layer of lacquer. The thing is that the piece suffered a few shakes while it was transported from one place to another, then I saw the chipped painting.
The lacquer was new and made those tiny bubbles. It happened to me twice using the same commercial brand of lacquer (it is supposed to be the good one).
I have tried not shaking the bottle before using it, and tried a flat paintbrush instead of a round one thinking the air got trapped into the hair of it. The tiny bubbles appeared anyway.
Now two things:
• Is there any way I could fix my “baby� ? I can’t see a damaged piece. What could I try? Anything, please.
• What could have happened with the bubbles of the lacquer?
Please answer me.
Kisses to you
MIrta
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Another thought... what kind of paper and what kind of adhesive did you use? And did you use anything like linseed oil, or other kind of oil-based material, anywhere in the project? Did you happen to use an inside mold and use some kind of oil as a mold release?
Could the pieces that are flaking off be simply from damage, like hitting a floor? Did you let the paint dry thoroughly before you applied the lacquer?
Did the tiny bubbles in the lacquer remain when it dried, or did they disappear?
This is a real mystery to me, because what you used and how you used it seems perfectly normal. If you look at the piece now, very closely, can you see any thin cracks in the surface, like spiderwebs? If so, are they just in some parts, or all over?
Before we can provide a solution, we must try to find the cause.
I keep thinking there might be some kind of oil in some part of it that might be causing the problem.
Sue
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Hello Sue, sorry for my delayed response, I have been ill, and then trying to take some pictures to show you the damaged part of my work.
I have been using newsprint, flour and water glue. I have not used any kind of oil-based material in any way neither I have used an inside mold.
I think what you have said before is right, not thoroughly dry before applying the lacquer; the damaged parts are in a few specific zones that show me it can be possible.
The tiny bubbles remained when the first bottle of lacquer I used was dry. When I used the new bottle of lacquer the bubbles disappear after it was dry.
I took some pictures of my work to show you the paint flaked off and the tiny bubbles but I don’t know how to submit them here. I would appreciate if you could teach me how to submit them or give me your e-mail address to send the pictures there.
Thanks
Mirta
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I once asked this and Russ told me as follows.
First you have to upload your picture to a photo sharing site (images, cannon gateway, Flickr etc.) Once you have the URL for the image, you can add it to your post by adding the following text:
Put [img]before the URL and[/img] after it. The squared brackets must be typed in as well as the letters.
I hope this makes sense to you. It worked for me.
DavidO
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Hi all,
Yes, a good simple service is: http://imgur.com
Just go to the site, select your image and click upload. Then, to put the image in a forum message just click on the text in the "Message Boards" section (this will copy the text to your "clipboard"). Now you just need to right click on the message box here on the forums and click "Paste". This will insert the image in the form David mentioned (e.g. [img]the url here[/img]).
An example of one I just uploaded:
It's a little confusing - give me a shout if you need any assistance.
Russ
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Thank you David and Russ, here I go.
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It does look like dampness in the underlayer to me. Remember that if the surface feels dry there may still be dampness underneath. As soon as you put an impervious layer on top, it will draw that moisture to the surface. Flour paste is also hygroscopic so if there is any dampness in the atmosphere it will soak it in. Other pastes are better.
The whole thing must be thoroughly dry. You could even put it in an oven for an hour on about 100C.
DavidO
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Hey David??...
Once a flour paste paper mache sculpture is done and sealed it will be okay.. is this right? or will it still be more susceptible to humidity damage regardless?
TK
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Once it is sealed, providing the seal is perfect, it should be OK. If it has been made with flour paste you will need to make sure that insects (or even rodents) don't enjoy getting into it. If it is safe in a house there should be no problem. Left in a shed or garage . . . well . . .
DavidO
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Yes guess there are draw backs to using flour paste.
Thanks DavidO!
yanamama .... I have seen those bubbles with spray lacquer before. therefor I am going to try n stay with a brush and can instead of Spray.Though Spray dries so fast and easier to apply, I am going to blame the bubbles on the Spraying.
TK
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Yes, if there's no oil involved, it must be moisture.
Sue
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I used a flat paintbrush to place the lacquer in this occasion, carefully and slowly to avoid the bubbles, but it did not helped.
Also (the part of the work you can see in yellow color), it is a big piece of paper soaked with white glue , then dried (apparently not enough), then covered with latex before painting it with acrilics.
Since that ocurred, I would appreciate if you can suggest any way to fix it, probably removing everything and returning to paint.
Thank you all for your replays.
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Personally, I would be tempted to start over.
I don't know how you would get the lacquer off without ruining it. I think it would take more time and effort to try to fix this one, than it would take to make a new piece.
Sue
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I have managed to get lacquer off by careful sanding but it is a fiddly, time consuming job and never gets into the corners probable, also you will have to strip right back to the underneath pm and start again repairing as you go. It really is a bit like stripping old paint of woodwork that has been carved or turned; only as pm is less robust you end up breaking bits off.
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Can a person get away with a light sanding then apply another two coats of paper on troubled areas then re~smooth areas that meet by sanding? Or will this risk again the bubbling and non sticking areas again?
I feel really badly for you, and hope you can repair it.
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TK, the problem with her design is that there are so many curves in it (see photos above), and curves (especially inside curves) are devilishly hard to sand. If it were a piece with a lot of flat sides, it would be more likely that you could sand it down and re-finish it.
Sue
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Do you think that covering the bubbles areas with a thin coat of pm paste (over lacquer) and then painting it again would function? Supposedly, acrilics over lacquer is good, therefore pm should be as well.I have thin files and I could try to file down carefully the yellow area which is the most curved in the figure. The work is a woman figure and the damaged parts are her feet and neck (with bubbles) and the headscarf (painting flaked off), maybe I can replace this .
I could try something.
Again, thanks to you all.
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Definitely not a layer of paste. My guess is that if you sand the bubble areas as best you can, dry thoroughly (even in an oven at low heat) then paint/varnish again, it will hopefully work.
DavidO
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Remember that you have two problems with your work: first, is the cause of the problem, the moisture -- without drying it out, you can't solve the problem. Reworking damaged places is your second problem.
As David says, you have to dry it out. Only then maybe you could repaint the damaged areas and reseal them. The bubbles and the flaking paint are only the symptoms of the problem, the moisture inside is the REAL problem.
Sue
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