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Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

#1 2006-02-27 22:56:01

Vinca
Member
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 54

Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

Wow!  What a great site!  I'm a newbie at papier mache and currently working on my second life size cat.  I finished the first one with the toilet paper/linseed oil/glue mixture and was happy with the finish, but I have 2 questions.  First, what's the purpose of the linseed oil?  It created quite a stench in the house and I'm not looking forward to doing that again.  Will a porcelain-like finish happen with just toilet paper, glue and maybe a little wallpaper paste?  Second, I read a post that mentioned sanding.  I had no idea you could sand papier mache.  Are there any guidelines to follow when doing so?  I finish the cats with a latex primer and acrylic paints.  My plan is to make a series of cats, each one slightly larger than the previous one, the final one being HUGE.  Haven't a clue what I'm going to do with them when I'm done, but it's so much fun! lol


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#2 2006-02-28 10:57:27

DaveyB
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From: Llyn Peninsula, Wales
Registered: 2006-02-13
Posts: 41
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Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

Hi.
Linseed oil just makes the pulp easier to work and tougher when dry.
How to sand papier mache? Take some sandpaper, rub it against papier mache  tongue
The finish you want will be achieved by using very very fine pulp, gesso, and then sanding.
I'm using nothing but toilet paper at the moment. I've found that the really cheap stuff is the best for a smooth finish. Also, you don't need to waste half your life tearing it, just put it all in a saucepan and boil it. Give it a stir occasionally and that's all. A real time saver! Wallpaper paste and plenty of glue makes it really smooth if you apply it carefully.


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#3 2006-02-28 13:08:12

Vinca
Member
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 54

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

Have you tried any other oils in the mix?  Like a plain, old, vegetable oil maybe?  When I made the first (and, so far, one and only) toilet paper mix I put it in a crock pot for a few hours.  This time I'll try the stove since I didn't think it was mushy enough.  I ran it in batches through the blender before I used it!  (Who wants to come to my house for lunch?? lol )  I'm not an artist - what exactly is gesso?  I used latex primer paint for walls under the acrylic.  (Taking that back, maybe I am an artist now.  I'll try to figure out how to post a picture and let you be the judge!)  Almost forgot - the sand paper question.  Does it matter whether the piece is primed before sanding or not?


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#4 2006-02-28 21:48:45

DaveyB
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From: Llyn Peninsula, Wales
Registered: 2006-02-13
Posts: 41
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Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

I haven't tried any other oil, no. I'm not a great one for experimenting and prefer to follow the advice of others here. I'm sure I read somewhere that if you bake your PM, the linseed is meant to make it waterproof?
What is gesso? it's basically a primer.
It doesn't matter when you sand, as long as the piece is properly dry! Some irregularities will be obvious, others will show up when you're painting. You're best off sanding & priming, sanding & priming until you're happy. Paint can be quite thick of course, so you might want to sand your paintwork down too. And then tou might want to add a couple of coats of varnish, sand, and varnish again!
Bear in mind that you can come up with some lovely paint effects by sanding through one coat to expose the colour underneath.


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#5 2006-02-28 22:39:12

Vinca
Member
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 54

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

I think I'll try a simple bowl and experiment with different colored layers of paint.  I bet you could remove layers with an x-acto knife and get some interesting designs.  I was thinking of adding fiberglass fibers to the mix when making hollow items like bowls.  Have you tried that?


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#6 2006-02-28 22:50:19

DaveyB
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From: Llyn Peninsula, Wales
Registered: 2006-02-13
Posts: 41
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Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

No, though I do have the remains of wire wool I was thinking of adding.


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#7 2006-03-01 02:08:49

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

"I was thinking of adding fiberglass fibers to the mix..."

I don't see why not.  They're added to concrete to strengthen it.  The main problem you MIGHT have is floating.  If so, maybe you could apply your adhesive (whatever), then apply the fibers randomly, then another layer of adhesive or PM with adhesive in it.

Please post if you try it, okay?

Sue

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#8 2006-03-01 02:45:38

Vinca
Member
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 54

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

I've used fiberglass fibers making plant pots with peat moss, cement and sand, but sometimes you have to singe any fibers on the surface which you couldn't do with PM.  Fiberglass tape - the drywall kind - might work, too.  I'll let you know.


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#9 2006-03-01 04:52:03

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

I guess a propane torch wouldn't be such a great thing to use on PM.....   big_smile

Just another layer of PM might take care of the fibers.

Sue

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#10 2006-03-01 09:40:09

dopapier
Moderator
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

:idea: Gesso is a thickened, strengthened paint used to obtain an ultra smooth surface.  The traditional gesso is used in gilding and is made from ground chalk in a rabbit skin glue.  You only need it if you want an ultra smooth surface.  It can be applied in layers, each sanded.  The PM surface itself is interesting and textured so you can simply paint this.

It's good to see someone experimenting.  Their results can inform us all.  (Go on Davey, be a devil :twisted: )
Linseed oil doesn't really make it waterproof.  As Davey said, it simply helps smoothness and may improve hardness slightly.  As you said, it can stink.  I once visited a linoleum factory.  The smell was one of the worst I have ever encountered.
DavidO


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#11 2006-03-01 12:47:54

Vinca
Member
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 54

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

chalk?  I'll have to make a trip to my local art supply store today.  Cat #2 is nearly ready for a finish coat.  I like the idea of different finishes and textures, especially for  abstract pieces.  I also like the recycling aspect of this art and the fact that it's "guilt free."  If you screw something up you just throw another layer on it and try again.  I ran into another phrase in this forum I wasn't sure about:  blitzing.  What's that?


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#12 2006-03-01 14:24:30

Mischief
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From: Wales
Registered: 2004-04-27
Posts: 44
Website

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

Hi, your cats sound wonderful and I'm sure we'd all like to see them when you've finished. The image you've given of all the different sizes puts me in mind of a cat's chorus with them all gathered together.

Sorry I can't help you with the 'blitzing', but thought I might throw in carving to the conversation. I sometimes carve my pulp pieces when they are dry to give them more precise detailing. All you need is a little whittling knife or possibly a small veg knife.


~~*~~*~~
(AKA) Jilly T.

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#13 2006-03-01 15:35:09

DaveyB
Member
From: Llyn Peninsula, Wales
Registered: 2006-02-13
Posts: 41
Website

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

I think blitzing means breaking up dry paper pulp in a coffee grinder or blender so that when you mix it with the other ingredients, you get a smoother pulp.


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#14 2006-03-01 18:30:52

Vinca
Member
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 54

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

My mix has been kind of nubby.  I put it in the blender wet.  Next time I'll try it dry.  I'm keeping an eye out for a used food processor which would have a larger container.  This is probably a dumb question, but are you supposed to dry the pulp for storage?  I made snowballs and put them in the freezer.  Ignorance is bliss. lol  Today I'm working on the bowl I had in my head.  Strips of fiberglass for reinforcement seem to be working well so far.  Here's my first ever project, a kitty inspired by my own Rosie.  I decided to leave her faceless so anyone with a calico could see their cat in her.
http://www.sover.net/~gldoyle/puss.jpg


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#15 2006-03-02 02:25:08

CatPerson
Moderator
From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

Nice kitty!

I don't know about freezing -- never heard of that.  I usually just make what I'll use, as I know if I leave it in the refrigerator, I'll probably forget it, and it will mold.

What kind of fiberglass strips?  I thought you were trying fibers...  If you are using the rolls of drywall mesh (or whatever it's called), it works best if you force the material THROUGH the mesh so it "holds hands" on the other side.

Sue

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#16 2006-03-02 13:21:12

Vinca
Member
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 54

Re: Is linseed oil necessary when making a porcelain finish mix?

I drizzled white glue over the whole business after I had them placed and smoothed it out.  If it ever dries I'll put another layer of PM on.  My goal is to have the bowl turn out looking like pottery.


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